As some of you are aware, there was a leak of some slides that I presented at AU in Las Vegas in early December. We've since been trying to figure out what to do about that and we're getting closer to making some decisions. Meanwhile, we might as well give you the information that is already present on the slides that were leaked.
Preface: Excalibur (or XBR) is a restructuring of 3ds Max that is intended to occur over three phases (not releases) and addresses fundamental improvements in workflow, UI and performance. 3ds Max 2010 is part of Phase I and you can see elements of some of the changes in the release. Things like the visual quality of the viewport, the use of metasl, new UIs, etc. Well, that was a launching pad for XBR, but we're really only about 50 meters above the launch pad at this point and we still have a long way to go before we reach our destination. Yes, we could have built a new codebase from the ground-up, but we'd prefer to bring you all along with us on this journey instead of forcing you to "abandon ship" because we started from scratch with an application that was new and shiny but didn't quite solve any real problems for you. For a product in our position, #1 professional tool in the world, that isn't something you take lightly. So instead, we decided to approach this in three major phases. I think Bobo put it best when he said that, “you are changing the engine of the race car while it is going 100 miles an hour”, or words to that effect. Yes, this isn’t for the faint of heart, but we’re pretty confident we can pull this off, and 3ds Max 2010 helped build our confidence.
Until we figure out our official position on revealing XBR, here are the slides that were leaked presented a little more clearly.









51 Comments
mortas may
Posted 18 December 2009 6:46 am
i can see this node based tech all working fluidly with an optional touch screen ui...Max future does look good indeed MR Ken
MM
Hi.Res
Posted 18 December 2009 9:53 am
PiXeL_MoNKeY
Posted 18 December 2009 4:08 pm
-Eric
Ken Pimentel
Posted 18 December 2009 4:20 pm
Yes, we know that the Ribbon has issues for some customers. We're certainly not going to expand the use of the Ribbon until it is working well in the manner that we intended. I guess you'll have to trust us that we're aware when we fall short and that we will work at something until it meets customer expectations. The process of restructuring can be a little bumpy and might seem even odd from the outside because no one knows of the dependencies that we're working with - and we're not allowed to explain them.
Hi.Res
Posted 18 December 2009 6:18 pm
i mean the stability. there are too many random actions to have a crash! i think you know what i'm talking about...
this is the first thing...the most important.
thanks
Ken Pimentel
Posted 18 December 2009 9:49 pm
I agree that without stability you have nothing. The problem is that the experience varies widely. You experience nothing but problems but the next guy claims he hasn't had a problem for a week. This is such a complex problem because there are so many external factors that affect stability. This means the best we can do is to make 3ds Max less sensitive to these external factors. There are several XBR efforts that will do that - but this is always going to be a complex issue when working with complex problems.
dj
Posted 18 December 2009 10:03 pm
brendang
Posted 18 December 2009 11:43 pm
I've been using 3D studio professionally since early in the DOS days, and though Max was originally a great step forward, it is now nothing more than a collection of bloated features and purchased 3rd party modules to appear to be software upgrades... The chimps running development on Max are clearly not serious long time users, and if they are, they no doubt suck at it. This sound harsh? Too bad. Being a pro doesn't mean checking our nads at the door, and speaking only in corporate polite-ese. From Digital Domain to Curious Picture, production is hard fought, trench warfare, and if you sensibilities are offended, then go to HR, and tell `em your feeling are hurt. You guys screwed up the central software for how we make a living out here. You'd think everyone would have learned the lesson of Vista, bloated is not welcome out here. Fix our software....
lynandal
Posted 19 December 2009 12:34 am
Ken Pimentel
Posted 19 December 2009 12:43 am
Wow! Thanks for sharing. I'll have to keep you in mind for drafting cheery notes to people I particularly dislike. I mean you really did a nice job at not being nice. I'm sure the frustration is real - I hear that loud and clear. I think the way you deliver your message might get in the way of the message for some people, but not with me. I've been on the forums long enough and I've been beaten up by the best of them. No need for sympathy though, I much prefer the passion you express to someone not really noticing what we're doing or never saying anything to us. The most that I can say is that I believe XBR is exactly what you're asking us for and if you'd spend a moment looking at it to confirm that, then that would actually help me. Otherwise, there wasn't much information in your comment that would guide us to do anything better.
spacefrog
Posted 19 December 2009 7:55 am
you guys screwed up the central software for how we make a living out here. You'd think everyone would have learned the lesson of Vista, bloated is not welcome out here.
[/end quote]
I would be very interested about what place you are talking here ? If you can't tell the name , at least the scale of the facitlity and the sector you are working in. Again - i mean this serious - i have my own thoughts about several things in Max 2010's UI - but that does'nt mean those are up to that negativity level of yours. On the other side i think such expression of dissatisfaction can be important too in an ongoing development process, if it's meant serious and not just senseless bashing and frustration unloading...
rmejia
Posted 19 December 2009 11:52 am
Hi.Res
Posted 19 December 2009 12:28 pm
this is not a war against 3D Max...i love this program, i use it from 3 version... believe us...this is not our fantasy...it's real.
for the moment, the 2009 version is the best.
so...i have a question: nurbs section will be updated? it's the same from 5 version...(maybe older)
bye
wilsimar
Posted 19 December 2009 1:09 pm
spacefrog
Posted 19 December 2009 1:23 pm
Just to be clear - i'm not in anyway associated with Autodesk or anything - I'm a Max user like you and i posted my request for info from brendang just out of personal interest.
I consider my informationlevel about what the Max Userbase expects and what it misses from current Max to be quite well balanced, because i frequent a lot of places. Nurbs were definitly not the thing brendang was talking about, even if they are some kind of blank spot in Max (not updated since about what ...Max 4 ? ... just a guess ...)
superrune
Posted 20 December 2009 12:54 pm
A couple more things I have noted down the past days:
- More modeless windows, for example making the object properties window modeless.
- Menus that can tear off (like Maya and Softimage), so that you don't have to create toolbars all the time.
- History dropdowns in the Import and Export file menus, and independent histories in map load, scene load, script load and so on. It's frustrating when you keep loading textures and objects from two different locations, and 3ds Max forces you to browse back and forth. Learn from Nuke in this instance, it has a great load window that has just enough customization.
- The Track/Graph View is starting to show its age. Most animators I've worked with refrain from doing Max work because of the track view (and also because of the relative slowness of the 3ds Max rigs). I think it's a combination of how slow the Track View is, and the way it keeps reformatting, to the clumsy way you have to move keys and bezier handles compared to Maya. I think most animators I know would be super-happy if the Maya graph editor was just lifted into 3ds Max!
Ken Pimentel
Posted 20 December 2009 4:50 pm
Which versions are you using? I think some of those are addressed in 3ds Max 2010
Jorge
Posted 21 December 2009 10:17 am
Cheers
loran
Posted 21 December 2009 2:04 pm
danpool
Posted 21 December 2009 2:29 pm
Ken Pimentel
Posted 21 December 2009 2:35 pm
Autodesk cannot comment on future releases of products or give any dates. Doing so would create a financial disruption on our books.
re: xbr
We haven't revealed all the details of XBR, yet.
Massimo Bongiorno
Posted 23 December 2009 5:34 pm
-Responsive tools and UI (We don't want to wait 5 seconds everytimes we pass from poly to edge and vertices ...)
-One Uv editing window (Unwrap uvw modifier is not the best things for a good workflow --> Uv editing and modeling must be transparent passing from the one to the other need to be transparent.
-Uvs better editing tools such as the textools script made for 3Dmax.
-Highrez modeling integration such as mudbox merged into 3dsmax for the same price. (The only chance to improve the speed process for HD datas creations). And the only chance for autodesk to keep away peoples from Zbrush and GoZ.
-Hardware viewport engine supporting nodal shaders creation (Such as Unreal engine).
-Merging of the layer manager, the scene manager, and all those datas managers into one and only layer manager.
Ken Pimentel
Posted 23 December 2009 6:44 pm
Well, we have some surprises for you...
re: Massimo
Well, we have some surprises for you...
ivon
Posted 24 December 2009 10:05 am
Regarding Havok's "flashing" - do you mean when solved objects jump and spin in the viewport? Cos that is not a real problem..turn off Real Time playback.
Editable Mesh is needed for the games industry, and it has more robust Normal editing than Poly
jona vark
Posted 26 December 2009 5:53 pm
Don't even get me started on Backburner or Mental Ray.
That would not be a problem if they were addressed and fixed but it seems Autodesk doesn't think that way. And the price for Max hasn't changed.. now with subscription prices added on top.
Now, the idea that the entire codebase is going to be changed.. well that's good and bad. If you consider Autodesk's propensity for using paying customers as beta-testers I think I am rather down about the idea.
Good luck with it though. I hope you can deliver on the promise of bug-free, fast efficient software but I would be happy just to have a dependable tool that works. And the thought of going through a ten year beta process is painful.
jona vark
Posted 26 December 2009 5:53 pm
Don't even get me started on Backburner or Mental Ray.
That would not be a problem if they were addressed and fixed but it seems Autodesk doesn't think that way. And the price for Max hasn't changed.. now with subscription prices added on top.
Now, the idea that the entire codebase is going to be changed.. well that's good and bad. If you consider Autodesk's propensity for using paying customers as beta-testers I think I am rather down about the idea.
Good luck with it though. I hope you can deliver on the promise of bug-free, fast efficient software but I would be happy just to have a dependable tool that works. And the thought of going through a ten year beta process is painful.
PiXeL_MoNKeY
Posted 28 December 2009 5:11 am
caebrasil
Posted 28 December 2009 8:13 pm
And hope 3dsmax will be more intuitive, for me this is always the biggest problem of 3D applications. BUT without forces me to relearn everything again...
PiXeL_MoNKeY
Posted 28 December 2009 10:31 pm
**HINT: The Slides don't end at 9.**
Have fun on the hunt and let me know if you find anything.
-Eric
sinok
Posted 28 December 2009 11:57 pm
sandykoufax
Posted 29 December 2009 1:27 am
robbx
Posted 5 January 2010 4:43 pm
robbx
Posted 5 January 2010 4:45 pm
Nimadv
Posted 9 January 2010 10:44 am
Thanks again
Best Regards
bill n
Posted 11 January 2010 1:38 pm
Ken Pimentel
Posted 16 January 2010 7:54 pm
http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/ken/register_for_excalibur_xbr_webinar
Grumple
Posted 18 January 2010 9:40 am
Grumple
Posted 18 January 2010 9:41 am
GorillaMilk
Posted 26 January 2010 10:54 pm
Ken Pimentel
Posted 28 January 2010 4:25 pm
http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/ken/excalibur_xbr_revealed
jboadas
Posted 2 February 2010 1:31 pm
Ken Pimentel
Posted 2 February 2010 1:40 pm
Not a direct goal of ours at this time (though that can change). We've already published our desire to work better in virtualized environments that run under os/x.
koberko
Posted 3 February 2010 9:27 am
In general, if this new UI will speed up work flow, then OK. But what about all user made content for 3dsmax, all over the net; tutorials, plugins and so on?? They all will be useless... Current user base will probably continue to work in 3dsmax, but new users will probably start to work in some other 3D software, becouse they will suddenly have much more tutorials then 3dsmax.
Ken Pimentel
Posted 3 February 2010 11:29 am
k4noe
Posted 24 February 2010 6:45 pm
Ken Pimentel
Posted 24 February 2010 7:16 pm
You should either upgrade your GPU or try downloading 3ds Max 2010 and see if it doesn't have better performance. We made lots of performance improvements since 3ds Max 9.
k4noe
Posted 5 March 2010 8:22 pm
3dsMax 9 setting = just turn "object display culling" on
3dsMax 2010 setting = adaptive degradation setting
bounding box - on
use cuurrent display - on
hide object - on ()
distant from camera = 0.5 (when I navigate viewport and it regenerate model it need some time)
thank
Ken Pimentel
Posted 5 March 2010 8:38 pm
http://download.autodesk.com/us/qualcharts/2010/3dsmax2010SP1_qualifiedgraphics_win.pdf
k4noe
Posted 6 March 2010 6:08 pm
k4noe
Posted 6 March 2010 6:22 pm
Ken Pimentel
Posted 8 March 2010 2:28 pm
We have a few of these identified on our hw requirement web site. The problem is that there are too many vendors with too many configurations for us to test. We can test the Quadro's and FireGL's because they generally come from one manufacturer. There is no way to do this consumer boards. We cannot afford to hire a dozen people just to test our various products with an unlimited number of GPUs and drivers. This is why we focus mostly on the professional boards - they are much more predictable (and don't change quite as often).
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